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Goth or not
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, a collection of information, not public relations therapy for Eldritch or the Sisters of Mercy. I am not arguing about whether Eldritch is Goth or not, nor should Wikipedia be a battle ground between those two POV's. 'Collection of info' includes information about the Gothic connection and Eldritch's feelings about that connection. Such info should be as NPOV as possible. I have kept this in mind during my edits and so should you. Grice
- One of these days I'm going to have the time to give this article some serious kicking into shape. Not only is it a POV mess (not all the same POV, but rather scattered), it's just generally a mess.
- I think the "Sisters Goth/Not-Goth" issue largely belongs in The Sisters of Mercy and we should certainly not repeat ourselves.
- I do, of course, have my own personal opinion on the topic, which is basically, "Just because you keep saying it, Andy, it doesn't make it true". If he really didn't want the Goth association, he'd stop using such a pretentiously Gothic name and would go back to being Andrew Harvey Taylor; he'd finally put the corpse of the Sisters out of its misery; and he'd go off and record music under a different project and name. No, he'd rather just complain for effect. —Morven 00:47, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)
- What we think or don't think about Andrew Eldritch's gothness isn't worth discussing; at least, not here.
- I agree with Grice that Wikipedia should be collection of information. However, I do not agree that the weasel terms s/he's using are passing for "information". (i.e. "Many Goths ignore the first generation and regard Eldritch as the father of their movement." - what is the source for the bold statement?)
- The topic of Eldritch's gothness is indeed contraversial one, and I do not see why any of opinion should be prevalent (currently the edits are concentrating on finding the right balance between the arguments). The only way for restoring balance I see is the structure I proposed earlier (i.e. two section with arguments of both sides, BOTH WITH STATING SOURCES FOR THEIR POINTS OF VIEW).
- Before continuing to edit. I want to know what you think about it. For one, I'm restoring the section about languages (Andrew explicitly states has only passing knowledge of languages except the English, French and Italian, and forgot all Mandarin Chinese he know , so this particular revert is open nonsence. - ASN 06:54, 2004 Sep 1 (UTC)
I don't believe it is a "bold statement" to point out that goths ignore first generation when claiming he is the "godfather of goth".
http://www.merciless.net/article.php?sid=13 http://www.merciless.net/topics.php?op=viewtopic&topic=17 http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/517670/09241999/jimmies_chicken_shack.jhtml http://members.tripod.com/~Medakse/aggothic.html http://freespace.virgin.net/philip_j_e.smith/goth.htm http://www.spookhouse.net/tsom/mastersvoice.html http://www.epinions.com/content_51038424708
I don't like the "two sections of both sides" module. For one, it gives you free reign to post whatever you want, and second, what are the sides? The Sisters of Mercy had a big influence on the developement of goth and Eldritch doesn't want any part of goth. My contributions are just adding further info in order to understand that issue. When one reads that the Sisters are labeled goth but that Eldritch seriously dislikes this label, the question is then "but why are they labeled goth?". This is why I feel it is important to point out the origin of the movement, since it shows that the Sisters were not the only band who were labeled goth against their will. Grice
Plagiarising Joy Division? Obviously an accusation by someone who is deaf then. There is very little similarity between the Sisters of Mercy and Joy Division, with the possible exception that both had singers who chose to sing in a somewhat deep voice. I also have no recollection of Joy Division being "marketed" as Goth. If anything, they came under the designation of "long mac" bands, which was basically rather bleak depressed young lads who went around in long black coats staring at the floor. Goth generally denoted the whole "Black spikey hair/black eye liner/nail polish/Robert Smith-esque" look, which Joy Division never used.
"Eldritch has since largely dispelled the unwelcome "goth" stigma by exclusively appearing in public dressed as popular entertainer Harry Hill." Please tell me that that's vandalism. Please. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 16:41, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi, I have removed the following text from the article as it lacks any form of supporting evidence, "Despite this, the band continue to debut new material on stage on a regular basis, infrequently playing secret gigs under a pseudonym in their spiritual home of Leeds." There was no supporting citations for this claim at all. I want to leave this open for the talk page to see if anyone has had any indication of there being any truth to this statement at all. Justin.Parallax (talk) 12:09, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
Bass or Bass-Baritone?
Shouldn't it say that he's a Bass, rather than a Bass-Baritone? I mean his vocal range is clearly that of the bass range, and is quite different from a baritone. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 04:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)